tv FOX News Sunday With Chris Wallace FOX March 21, 2010 9:00am-10:00am EDT
i'm chris wallace. the house is finally set to vote on healthcare reform. judgment day. do democrats have the vote to make healthcare reform the law of the land? we will get an update from the white house and capitol hill and talk with two key players. congressman paul ryan organization top republican on the house budget committee and debbie wasserman schulz. and what can republicans do in the senate and beyond to derail the democrat's plan? we will talk with the chairman of the republican senate campaign committee and ask our sunday panel if the obama presidency rides on the success
of failure of healthcare reform all right now on "fox news sunday." and hello again from fox news in washington. after more than a year of debate, healthcare reform is headed for a final vote in the house today. and the outcome is still not certain. that means the president and house speaker pelosi are cajoling, dealing and arm twisting for votes on both ends of pennsylvania avenue. for the latest let's bring in major garrett and carl cameron. carl, it looks like how the house votes is a big part of the story today. >> yeah, chris. the clock is winding down but democrats say they will have healthcare reform on the presidents it desk for signature into law tonight. democrats on the house rules committee yesterday abandoned a controversial shortcut known as deem and pass so there will be a full house vote on the bill. when the president visited the
hill for one last push yesterday, house speaker nancy pelosi just beam. >> we are on the verge of making great history for the american people and in doing so we will make great progress. the president actually acknowledged that democrats are divided over this and for many it amount to a tremendously difficult vote. >> i can't guarantee that this is good politics. every one of you know your districts and if you think your constituency honestly wouldn't be helped you shouldn't vote for this. is this bill perfect? of course, not. will this solve everly single problem in our healthcare system right away? no. this piece of historic legislation is built on the private insurance system that we have now and runs straight down the center. >> republicans disagree. democrats say they have the votes but the margin of victory is likely to be very small.
antireform protesters have been demonstrating and there were incidents yesterday. lawmakers faced racial epitaph and gayepitaphs. and one lawmaker got spat on. >> do white house officials think they have the votes in the house today? how confident are they? >> they have confident and they have been since the president canceled his trip to indonesia and australia. many said the president did not and would not cancel that trip if he thought he was staying in washington to watch a defeat. the president has worked the phones yesterday and will today if necessary to get the votes. as carl cameron said, it appeared the democrats had the votes but the white house is not sure every commitment is there to get to the magic number of 216 so the president and his chief of staff stand ready to make calls if
necessary. >> there is talk that the president might sign an executive order reaffirming the amendment that no federal funds will be used for abortions to pick up some of the prolife democrats. is that something that they will do? >> there have been intense conversations on this very topic and i'm told that that executive order is necessary to get them to that 216 magic number and possibly above. the white house itself will not comment. i tried very hard for the white house to give me some sense of where the president is on this. my reporter from capitol hill says if necessary the president will do this but he will hold out until it is clear to him that he must sign this executive order to obtain victory. >> how much does the white house think is riding on today's vote? how important is a victory for his effectiveness going forward. conversely, how damaging would a defeat be?
>> the stakes could not be higher. the white house knows this is a tough vote and after this battle is over if they prevail they expect the poll numbers to go up at the white house but many other democrats face a tough mid term election. energy, financial regulation could be casualties of healthcare but the white house orientation is we better get this victory because if we don't get this one we may not have any before november. >> thanks for that, major garrett. joining us are two key house leaders. paul ryan, top republican on the house budget committee and debbie wasserman schulz. welcome. >> thank you. >> as the whip you are one of the counters, do the house democrats have the votes? will you pass the senate overhaul and reconciliation fix it bill today? >> i think we will. between the members that is publicly committed and the
members we have been talking to, i think we have the 216 votes. >> just before we went on the air you said the whip count is in flux. really? >> it has always been in flux. we don't have a hard 216 right now. i couldn't tell you which 216 members we will have, but i believe firmly that we will have it. >> and is there the possibility that if you get 216 you may say so some of the members in tough districts, if you want to vote know, you have political cover you can vote no. >> i think we will have some members say if it is passing i want to be on top of this important significant piece of legislation and me might go beyond 216. >> does she have the votes and if so what is the outcome for the republicans today? >> we knew as early as yesterday they didn't have the votes. i know they have to get beyond 216 because if you get to 216 then every democrat cast the
tie breaking vote and they want to get to 217 so that talking vote is taken away from them. what we republicans do is move on from there and try to fix the damage that we believe has been done to the healthcare system. >> there is talk and i want to pick up on what i was discussing with major garrett about the president signing an executive order reaffirming that no taxpayer funds will be use for abortion to try to pick up some of the prolife democrats who voted yes last time and talked about voting no now. will the president do that? >> there has been no decision to do that right now. we have been underscoring to my colleagues that are concerned about the language that this bill does not provide federal funds for abortion at all and does not change current law at all and this bill is absolutely status quo when it comes to abortion coverage. >> have some said that executive order from the president would make it easier for me? >> some members would still
like more comfort for the emphasis to be underscored about the federal funding and we are working on ways to provide them with that comfort. >> i would say i simply couldn't disagree with debbie more. one man can sign an executive order and reveal that again, the president of the united states. for those of us in the prolife movement and my democratic friends who are prolife that toesent cut it. executive order is not permanent law. we don't see that as sufficient to permanently stop funding abortion. >> it does not provide federal funds. that is why the catholic health association and all the significant catholic groups endorsed this. >> the hospital administrators say this funds abortion.
>> i'm sure he nuns would be surprised to learn they don't have the right to weigh in on healthcare reform. >> the bishops are the. >> as they say politics make certain bed fellows. let's talk about money. congressman ryan, democrats say when you take the senate bill and add the reconciliation fix it bill that they hope will be passed today, $138 billion in deficit savings over the next ten years. you are money man. that is impressive. >> let me break that down for you because we have seen some of this. we have gotten letters in the congressional budget office subsequent to the analyses. this give is you a plus 138, no deficit. when you take all the accounting from the class act, taking the premiums to the new programs. $53 billion from social security for the new program. $71 billion it will take to cost this.
the $398 billion taken out of the medicare trust fund gives you a $454 billion deficit. >> the first ten years. >> and the speaker said two days ago she is passing what prevents the cut to doctors to payment in medicare. if you add that the budget is $662 billion over the first ten years. this is the congressional budget office analysis when you look at the actual details of the bill and take the smoke and mirrors and double-a counting out. >> that is asking paul ryan to ask the congressional budget office to put into the bill what isn't the bill. the bill is the bill. paul knows full well, we are not double counting. we haven't done anything differently budgetarily than any traditional process we used. every president has used the same budgeting mechanisms. there is nothing different here. while paul is in the weeds for
economic theory, i would like to tell you how healthcare reform affects every day lives. folks that i talked to, the survivors that i am one of understands that we are done with insurance companies dropping us or denying us coverage because of preexisting conditions. women in this country are done being treated like being born a woman. >> i would note. >> those are important things. >> i understand but the money is an important thing. i'm not going to use paul ryan's numbers. i'm going to use our numbers and let's put these up on the screen. first of all, almost all of the added savings, 138, so $20 billion more than the senate bill, come from the student loan reform into the healthcare reform bill. this isn't from healthcare savings. this is from the student loan. you cut revenue from the senate bill, democrats actually increase taxes in the
reconciliation bill another $50 billion to $569 billion and cut medicare another $66 billion to 523 billion. congress woman, if people have already been complaining that the senate bill raises taxes you are doing even more of that in the house bill? >> what the bill. >> those are legitimate questions to ask. >> what the bill that we are voting on today is provides the largest tax break for small businesses so make sure that they can provide insurance coverage to their ememployees in history. >> but raise taxes another $50 billion. >> there are tax increases on the wealthiest americans to make sure, excuse me. if we are going to talk about tax increases we should talk about your proposal which actually cuts the legs out from under medicare and raises taxes on 75% of americans and cuts taxes for the wealthiest few
all the why endle medicare. you are not on firm ground when it comes to that. >> first of all, it as net tax increase according to the congressional budget office. $569.2 billion tax increase on everybody. everybody is being mandated to buy this and you are back up about the tax. the irs is the agency in charge of enforcing the new mandate and backing it up with a tax. it is a half a trillion dollars in new taxes. $523 million taken from med it did i care not to expand but to pay for the new program. that is what the congressional budget office is telling us. >> those are the numbers that paul asked them to manufacture. >> no, those are your numbers. >> it does increase taxes. the fact is that you have more generous -- you pull back on the tax on cadillac health plans so you have to find taxes in other places.
>> we have a balanced the tax increases on the top 2% of americans. balanced by significant cuts in making sure that we can provide tax breaks. >> let me ask you and i will let the congressman speak about this as well. there was also a lot of complaint about special deals in the senate bill and the fact is the cornhusker kickback and gator-aid for florida taken out of the deal. special deals for connecticut and montana still in the bill. $100 million for hospitals added to the bill. 8.5 million for new york and ten other states added to the bill and more for central, california. congressman, could speaker pelosi end up using a lot of taxpayer money to buy votes. >> those are not special deals. those are competitive programs for sits emlegible. >> $100 million for a hospital
in connecticut. >> that is not $100 million for a hospital in connecticut. there are 13 sits eligible to competitively compete for the program. that is not just a special deal for connecticut. >> how about the one deal for one bank in north dakota. is that a special deal? >> i don't even know that you are talking about. >> the special loan from pomeroy's district where one bank would be allowed to continue? >> earl pomeroy was for the healthcare bill before anything was added with the student loan bill. we have an important bill here that is going to cut the budget deficit not by 138 billion but with the latest cbo score 143 billion and slow the growth rate of medicare and adds nine years of solvency to the medicare program and cover 32 million more americans. >> i don't want to go back to -- i want to ask you are there special deals or aren't there in this?
>> there are special deals. this does not add to the col solvency of medicare. the cbo told us. read the letter dated march 19th from cbo. >> goes back to the question of double counting. aren't you using the medicare savings twice. expand the solvency but spending the money to pay for your healthcare reform. you can't do both. >> we are doing exactly whateverry -- >> answer my question, if you would. aren't you doing both? >> there is nothing different in the way we budgeted this than president bush budgeted and president clinton budgeted and -- no, it is not. >> bush did it the right way. expanding the solvency. in 1997 expanded so that the clinton '97 deal is totally different than this. >> we have essentially been talking politics. let me ask you, after a year of debate clearly and i know you think it is because there have
been misrepresentations there is a lot of opposition. how between now and november do you persuade americans this is good for you? >> we willle talk about the huge benefits that happen right away. we close the medicare part d doughnut hole and make sure that seniors have buy the prescription drugs and end the horrific insurance company practice of dropping people as soon as they become sick. we will make sure that we can put young adults on parent's insurance until they are 26 years old and preexisting conditions for children immediately. phase out the denial of coverage for all people who have preexisting conditions. >> congressman, you have talked about making repeal the center piece of the campaign. >> repeal in place of something better. >> but making that the center piece of the campaign between now and november for house republicans but the fact is there are some specific things that kick in and americans once they get it tend to like their
entitlements. >> in three to four weeks it wipes out any deficit reduction claims and. >> speak to the larger issue. >> what i think is going to happen is people are going to have a rude awakening to all the things in the bill. they are nationalizing the entire student loan industry and making the department of education the 7th largest bank in america and getting rid of all of the private student loan vendors except for one in north dakota and assuming things in the bill and i don't think people are realizing what is going to happen. they are going to encourage firms to dump their healthcare that they are providing for employees. new mandate. a $10 million mandate for the irs to police this. all the details will be unfolding. >> at end of the day when the bill passes i dare the republicans if for some reason powers extend to -- move on the security and stability of the small business owners that no longer have to be subject to
skyrocketing insurance. >> take the debate to the house floor. >> we will be doing it all day. >> thank you both. thanks for coming in and this should be a very interesting day. >> thanks. >> up next, if the house passes the reconciliation fix it bill it goes to the senate. what can republicans do there and beyond to block healthcare reform? we will talk with senator john cornyn after the break. (announcer) we're in the energy business. but we're also in the showing-kids- new-worlds business. and the startup-capital- for-barbers business. and the this-won't- hurt-a-bit business. because we don't just work here. we live here. these are our families. and our neighbors. and by changing lives we're in more than the energy business we're in the human energy business.
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joining us now to talk about what happens next if the house does, indeed, pass healthcare reform is republican senator john cornyn who is in his home state of texas. the first thing that happens if the house passes the so-called reconciliation fix it bill is it goes to the senate and then the so called rule applies where each provision in the reconciliation bill must have a direct effect in cutting the deficit. are there elements and if it doesn't then the senate parliamentarian can rule them out of order. are there some that fail that test? >> there are a number of them, chris. and to your point, this has never been used for anything quite like this before and hence there is going to be a lot of holes punched in the reconciliation bill and it will
have to go back to the house and theyville to vote on it again without a lot of the sweet heart deals and special deals that speaker pelosi is having to make to twist arms to get people to vote for it in the first place. >> give me an example that you will be able to take to the senate parliamentarian and say throw that out, it violates the berg rule. >> the so called ex-ize tax on cadillac insurance plans. that affects social security and violates th rule and we wil raise a interpo of order. there are 41 senators who signed a letter saying that we will not vote to waive that point of order. it will fall. either that provision or potentially bring down the whole bill. >> the second thing the gop can do is offer amendments to the reconciliation bill. how many amendments do you guys have prepared in your quiver,
if you will, in our arsenal? talking about dozens? talking about hundreds? >> i think it is more probably in the order of hundreds. the point is we are going to help the american people understand by these amendments what is in the bill and why they are right when they think it is a bad bill. i mean the american people don't want this bill but our democrat friends seem determined to jam it down their throat regardless and i think there will be serious consequences. but we will highlight that with our amendments. >> you talk about highlighting it. so let me get to the point. you know that as a practical matter almost none if any of these amendments are actually going to get passed. is the point basically to make your point to force democrats to vote it down on what you think are unpopular measures? >> well, it is to highlight what is in the bill that is bad and why the american people are right when they say we don't want it. so far this process has been
jammed through a lot of negotiations behind closed doors. special sweet heart deals you talked about extensively and who knows what kind of deals speaker pelosi had to make to twist arms to get close to the 216. the most important thing is she is not there yet and i hope the members of the house who are tempted to succumb to her arm twisting will realize that the deals can't be upheld with once it goes to the senate and they will be out there by themselves come election time in 2010. >> you talked about the fact that you may offer hundreds of amendments as you put it. senate democrats say that if at some point the amendments go on and on they will ask the presiding officer who will be vice president biden who is the presiding officer in the senate to rule that the amendments of delatory, which means they are intended to delay or obstruct and he can then cut your amendments off.
>> well, i think, you know, what this will demonstrate is the desperation of the administration and democrats in congress to jam this bill through. and i don't underestimate their willingness to be ruthless about the process. so, that could happen. but i guarantee it will happen on television, on c-span for and on fox news and for 300 million people to see and i think there will be a terrible price to be paid for this sort of defying public opinion. >> senator, there is also the possibility of legal challenges. two states, idaho and virginia already passed laws blocking the individual mandate that would -- the mandate that all individuals buy healthcare insurance, that it is -- they allege that it is unconstitutional. as a former justice of the texas supreme court, do you expect a lot of lawsuits to be filed against healthcare reform and beyond the discussion of
individual mandates on what issues? >> i know early on 16 state attorney generals said they were prepared to sue over the provisions of the senate bill which favored some states over others. the cornhusker kickback, the louisiana purchase and so forth and so on. i don't think we know what the final form will be but suffice it to stay there are states attorney generals that will file suit. the litigation may go on literally for months and years. i think it demonstrates to me really the audacity of the administration in trying to jam this thing through. people don't want it. this isn't like major civil rights legislation, for example that dare carried by large bipartisan majorities and too important to do on a partisan basis and i think there will be unexpected consequences as a
result. >> you are also in charge this year of electing republicans to the u.s. senate, the head of the senate campaign committee. do you intend to make -- assume that this goes through today, a pledge to repeal healthcare reform a major element of the 2010 campaign, of the november campaign? and as long as president obama is in the white house isn't that basically an empty promise? >> well, i think it will be a referendum on this healthcare bill. for example in places like, indiana, where only 37% of the public approve of this, you have congressman who want to be the next senator from indiana saying they will vote for the bill. that would be the defining issue in that state. states like, new hampshire, known for their fiscal responsibility where paul hogues said he is going to vote for the bill that is a job killer that is going to run up deficits, cut medicare and
raise taxes. this will be the defining issue in november of 21st century and 2010 and -- in november of 2010 and if it passes when the president runs for reelection. >> congressman wasserman schulz said here on the air there are a number of specific things that are going to help people and people will like that kick in between the bill passing if it does pass and november and let's take a look at a few of those. insurers will no longer be able to cancel policies if people get sick and no longer able to impose lifetime caps. children can stay on parent's insurance to age 26 and some seniors get $250 rebates for prescription drugs and there are bunch more of them. won't democrats be able to fire back in the various states and say look there are tangible benefits that will make your life better. >> most of the things you
mentioned are not controversial but the problem is what you will see immediately are cuts in medicare. medicare advantage, cuts in benefits for a lot of seniors and much higher taxes and the benefit to the extent the major benefits that the plan exist don't kick in until after the next presidential election in 2014. there will be a lot of pain and very little gain between now and november and, indeed, between now and november of 2012. i think i would rather be a republican running against this bill and saying let's start over than i would a temperature crat trying to defend this bill in november. >> what do you think given the overall political climate and healthcare reform if it does become the law of the land, given the economy, what do you think are the chances that republicans can regain control of the senate in november which would mean a net gain of ten seats? >> i think we will have significant gains. i'm not going to give you a
number. i will tell you that in 2012 there were nine republican seats up, 23 democratic seats. i think that is the year we turn the corn. so not 2010 but 2012. >> i'm not going to give you a number because i don't want to raise expectations too high but we are going to have a good night in november of 2010. >> we look forward to shareing that night with you, senator, good, bad or indifferent and we want to thank you for coming in and talking with us. please come back, sir. >> thanks, chris. >> after our coverage here stay tuned all day to fox news channel and fox news.com for the latest on the big vote in the house. coming up the sunday regulars weigh in on the end game of the historic debate on healthcare reform. back in a moment.
unconstitutional and illegal and something we should have done in the light of day straight up. >> congressman tennis cardoza explaining why the pass procedure was dropped in favor of a straight up or down vote on the senate bill. time for our sunday regulars. wribrit hume, yes, he is back. and mara liasson, bill kristol and on juan williams. also from national public radio. bill, you have been saying for a year every week that democrats will not pass healthcare reform.
are you ready to throw in the legislative towel. if. >> never, never, never give up. >> did you see the kansas northern iowa game last night? if he can hit that shot the republicans still have a shot. >> he was destroyed my brackets. >> mara, what do you make of all of the last minute jockeying by democrats, the procedure, first in, now out. are they going to have an executive order on abortion? >> they are doing everything they can to squeeze out every last vote. i think the executive order is important. there has been the big argument whether or not the senate bill's language on abortion enshrines hyde or not and the president will say, yes, it does. in the end the democrats understood it was a net minus
for them. it hurt them more than it helped them. nancy pelosi felt it would help her get votes and said something she now regrets, i like this because my members now don't have to vote on the senate bill. that caused one more chanter in this public disgust with the process of the whole bill. >> do you think? >> and i think that all along the democratic leaders and i understand they have to do certain things that they thought was the only way they could pass like making all the special deals in the senate but they have been a little bit out of touch with how intensely voters are watching this and how they understand the process and the process does become a kind of metaphor for a congress that is dysfunctional and corrupt and i think in the end since nobody was fooled and everybody knew that they were going to vote on the senate bill if they were going to amend it, it is a good thing they drop. >> brit, you and i covered the house, you for abc and me for nbc back in the 19th century. what strikes you about the end
game here? >> i have never seen anything like this. i have never seen a measure that was the priority of a president that was so strongly resisted by the public and when you think about it, it is hard to think of what else the public could have done to make known its disfavor of the whole legislation and process by which it was passed and i have never seen a situation where with the majority of this size and a measure of this priority to a president the majority party had such difficulty passing it. >> so why if as you do believe that the public is strongly against this bill, why are democrats going ahead and voting for it? >> not all are. a lot of them are not. there is bipartisan here but it is all. >> assuming they pass it. >> it as long held dream of the left in america going back many decades to do this. not precisely this bill in precisely this way but to mix healthcare coverage universally available and to, you know,
crack down on the insurance companies and so on. and they believe that they had this moment in history with a newly elected president, extraordinarily large majorities in both houses. it is a window that opened and it was a perishable majority and it was not going to be open long and this was their only chance to do it for lose the objective for decades to come. they want it as badly as someone might want a new car. if you are in for it for decades this is your chance whatever it takes and what it has taken has been amazing. >> this is not the dream of the left. this is the dream of the american people going back to presidents including richard nixon, teddy roosevelt. this has been a long-term struggle to bring some notion of the american idea of equity to people who don't have health insurance, to people who are crowding emergency rooms to stop the excesses of insurance companies that were doing
things. the congressman from ohio talked about his mother with breast cancer. president obama talked about his mother dying of uterine cancer and having to deal with the insurance companies on the phone. we have seen insurance rates going up all over the country. this is a tremendous effort in which most of the american people say we want healthcare reform. we want -- >> wait, wait, wait. let me put up the poll, if we can. this is the real clear politics average of all of the polls from the last few weeks and what the poll shows is that 40% actually voted -- here it is. 40% favor the democrats healthcare plan. not the idea, but the plan. 40% favor. >> and that is why the poll is deceptive. if you ask about this specific plan, about all the procedures and tactics and arguments and special deals they don't like
it. they don't like it. because specifically of the plans and because the voters are concerned about deficit spending. but if you ask overall about healthcare reform. >> they are not voting on healthcare reform. they are voting on this plan. >> they are voting on a plan that takes us in terms of achieveing that goal which is healthcare reform for the american people. it is so important that we understand the difference between the sausage making which is noxious and toxic at time. >> you finally mentioned the public's concern with deficit spending. one thing you didn't mention is to curb the escalating costs of healthcare in this country. i don't think anybody believes this will do that. it relies on nearly $500 billion in medicare cuts. apart from the fact that they are double counted, no one in
their right mind believes that the cuts will happen and bespecial which with the waste, fraud and abuse, if it could have happened it would have happened a long time ago. it will be extremely difficult to achieve that. the reality is that this measure is going to explode further the costs of healthcare in this country and deepen the deficit problem -- >> do you believe the ceos. >> i believe -- >> juan, please, look. the cbo is required to score what congress says it will do. >> correct. >> congress says itle do $400 billion in medicare cuts. congress has never done anything like that in its life. >> that is what they say they aring. >> the bill doesn't do that. it states the intention to do that. >> they said they are going to cut spending for medicare doctors and the first thing that the people say is they are about to do the doctor fix. >> you guys want to bring in everything, the problem with the senate -- you know, this
bill is not about fixing everything on the universe. >> what is it about? >> improving met healthcare ine united states, no, it does not. it creates 16,000 irs agents that is going to drive people out of medicine. we identified the breast cancer, people that suffered from breast cancer. what are the recovery rates over the last 20 or 30 years. thank god they are better than they were. american healthcare is a terrific thing. >> healthcare -- the quality of healthcare is relevant to the healthcare bill. >> it is going to damage healthcare in this country. >> why do you say that? >> why do i say that? look how many doctors drop patients already from medicaid. >> but that has to do with medicaid and medicaid spending and you have to have a fix which they will do later but it is not part this of bill. >> we have to take a break here. you can continue during the commercial or panel plus.
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call 1-866-932-fios. that's 1-866-932-fios. call the verizon center for customers with disabilities at 800.974.6006 tty/v. this is beyond cable. this is fios. i am convinced that when you go out there and you are standing tall and you are saying i believe that this is the right thing to do for my constituents and the right thing to do for america that ultimately the truth will out. >> that was president obama on capitol hill saturday urging house democrats to take the political risk and vote for healthcare reform in what he said could be a tough vote. we are back with the panel. mara, almost does president obama have riding on the vote today? what does victory and conversely defeat mean for the presidency? >> it means a tremendous
amount. the cost to him of this failing are almost immeasurable. i think his presidency would be pretty much crippled and he would have failed to get a signature initiative and the democrats could look like they can't govern. how much does he gain? i think he gains less than the amount he would lose if it fails but he could go out and argue about what the bill actually does instead of something that is theory ethical. the question for me is, is this the high water mark of the opposition or as the republicans predict this will become the number one issue in every race in the fall and the president might want to pivot to jobs and the economy and we will be talking about healthcare forever. i don't know yet. >> let me bring that up with brit because if healthcare reform does become law it seems clear as winston churchill said this is not the beginning of the end, just the end of the beginning. there will be legal challenges, there will be an effort to repeal the bill.
that will be one of the key republican mantras. what do you see as the political fallout in november. >> a wave of george w. bushing coverage. we already saw it is beginning about the tenacity and the determination of this president to see his signature initiative through. it will be said thisth is an act of leadership and he kept on persisting when all seemed lost and there will be a lot of that. the fact is there is not much chance in my view the public is going to start liking the measure any time soon and the political consequences for the democrats in the fall are likely to be severe. how does the president adjust to a new atmosphere in which he doesn't have the overwhelming majorities. he had a terrible time getting this passed even with them. the question becomes what is he going to do in the domestic area after that. co-pivot tco--- could he pivote center.
i think he is disinclined to do that and adapt and adjust the way bill clip ton did. he could end up with one or both houses in republican hands. while mara suggest that's failure of this bill will cripple the presidency. i think that the passage of the bill could end up with that consequence as well. >> let me ask you about that bill because democrats seem to be banking on the idea that in the long run and i don't know if the long run starts in november or after that that americans will embrace this entitlement the way they embraced social security and medicare. >> those were actual entitlements that people benefited from. none of the money goes to any american. a lot of it goes to insurance companies. >> you see it very clearly yes you go to the doctor's office and you are over 65 years old. i believe the pac proct effectn the ground will be
new englandtive and companies announcing they will let people off the health insurance and go into the exchanges and the like. an incredible repeal and reform and replace agenda and i think they can do it. they have a window. most of the subsidies do not go into effect until 2014. the subsidies which go through the insurance company to the public and i think the republicans could run in 2010 and 2012 on repealing and replacing this with a much better form of healthcare. this does not go away. >> juan, let me get even more big picture. some conservative critics say what we will see happen today is that the passage of healthcare reform is another big step in the movement towards a european style social democracy, a big nanny state, a big welfare state. on the other hand, democrats say that this basically preserves the marketplace and is no more than a lot of the republican plans that clinton turned out in '94.
how radical is obama care? how much of a difference do you think it makes in the role of government in our daily lives? >> i don't think it is radical at all. the fliest this country in fact is up in arms because it doesn't have a public option. it will have exchanges in the 50 states but doesn't have a big public option that have provided for the major source of competition for these insurance companies. president obama said yesterday this is a middle of the road bill that builds on the current system for most americans who have insurance will not be impacted. nobody is going to lose out on the deal. you have instead is an opportunity to strengthen things. not only expanding the coverage, it is reining in the insurance companies. and if you have a kid in college, that kid is able to stay on your insurance plan until he is 26. these are major improvements in terms of the healthcare system but somehow you get these arguments that it is going to damage democrats in november.
>> you said that a moment ago and let me say for the record it will not damage democrats in november because the issue in november is going to be the economy. this will be seen as something in the -- >> it is not going to be healthcare. >> this will be seen as the issue that democrats pursued captain ahab style while the economy burned. i'm not saying there is a lot the government could be doing about the economy but whatever they were doing, they weren't doing that. moreover, chris, what are the issues that really are the most urgent issues of our time. the economy and the ability of the economy to finance the debt that it now has to carry which is astro gnomical and unprecedented levels of the share of the wealth. >> welcome back. and you're exactly right. >> glad to see you, juan.
>> this president and succeeding presidents are going to have an awesome challenge trying to get their arms around that issue. a principle element is the exploding cost of healthcare. this bill despite all of the talk about it worsens that problem, makes it far more difficult. that would be the contribution of the supposedly historic social landmark. >> when the republicans act responsibly in terms of saying to the american people we either have to cut benefits for social security, medicare and medicaid or raise taxes we could say let's have a rational conversation but you don't see that kind of political responsibility for anybody. >> the man who sat here with chris, paul ryan has a plan on the table which addresses these issues and takes the very kind of tough action you are talking about. and it could pass this congress and. >> the republican congress. >> we don't know that. >> we don't know that. >> we don't know that.
we don't have the republican. >> let's see the republicans campaign. you all are going to see -- >> i disagree. americans don't just vote their pocketbook in the narrowest sense. people are concerned about the future of this country and they think this bill is bad for a majority and i believe that will be the republican message and it will be a responsible one to repeal this deal and to get a hand on the debt. >> is this another step down the direction of a european style? >> it would be but luckily the american public with insist on the repeal the next three years. >> i predict that 2013 the bulk will be repealed and replaced with better healthcare legislation. >> all right. we have to -- thank you, panel, see you next week. don't forget to check out the latest edition of panel plus where our group continues the discussion on our website. you will want to see it today. wup next, a preview of next
week's very special program. i don't think you can live the american lifestyle without energy. we have all this energy here in the u.s. we have wind. we have solar, obviously. we have lots of oil. i think natural gas is part of the energy mix of the future. i think we have the can-do. we have the capability. we have the technology. the solutions are here. we just need to find them here. host: could switching to geico really save you 15% or more on car insurance? did the caveman invent fire? ♪ sweet times knocking at my front door, what else could i ask for, tonight. ♪ ♪ better times knocking... host: could switching to geico 15% or more on car insurance? host: is ed "too tall" jones too tall?
commanding 37-point lead in the polls last spring and considered by many to be a future leader in the republican party. in a remarkable turn around his challenger mar co-rubio, former, florida, speaker of the house and tea party favorite stormed to the lead. next sunday the two men sit down face to tas face for their first debate. it should be quite a confrontation. e-mail us and give us your ideas for questions for the florida senate showdown. that is it for today. have a great week and we will captioned by closed captioning services, inc. [ male announcer ] it's our hottest offer of the season, but it's melting fast. so hurry, act now to get fios tv, internet and phone
at the super low price of $99.99 a month -- guaranteed for 2 years! call now and you'll also get a multi-room dvr and set top box -- free for six months. with 100% fiber optics straight to your home you'll get an amazing hd picture, america's top rated internet and phone. all for just $99.99 a month. enjoy tons of your favorite shows and channels. fios brings facebook and twitter right to your tv. also, check sports, weather and traffic without interrupting your show. you'll get tv with four times more very satisfied customers than comcast. get it all for just $99.99 a month -- guaranteed for 2 years! plus a multi-room dvr and set top box -- free for six months. don't wait. this incredible offer ends soon. call 1-866-932-fios. that's 1-866-932-fios. call the verizon center for customers with disabilities at 800.974.6006 tty/v. this is beyond cable. this is fios.